ALWAYS WRONG TO ASK FOR FORGIVENESS FROM GOD AND FROM OTHERS?

 
Forgiving is partly about people moving forward together despite the hurtful things done in the past.  It means resolving to do good for them and doing it.  If you still feel rage that is okay if you cannot help it but find ways not to let it explode.

 

Despite the hype few, if any, forgive for this reason, "Evil is that which must be fought and destroyed.  Don't call another person evil. It risks ignoring how supposedly good people let them do it.  It does not look at the true causes of the person's behaviour.  Calling anyone evil is putting energy into keeping the cycle of hate and violence going on.  Forgiveness is necessary."  The real motive is to start feeling better after being badly hurt.  People are happy to move on from what an enemy did to them and don't care much if the enemy moves on to somebody else.

 

The reason given is a pack of lies.  Yet it is the only proper reason for pardoning.

 

Let us talk about that for a while.

 

Suppose you say the person is valuable no matter what they do, that essentially they are a good person doing evil things, that their hearts are untouched by the evil they do.  Well first of all nobody believes you mean what you say. 

 

If humans do evil and can be evil you are dehumanising  them by denying they know what they are doing.  So if calling somebody evil dehumanises so does the alternative.  Nobody dares to say that if they are dehumanised it is their own fault. Nobody dares to say that the one who sees them other than properly human is only seeing them as they have made themselves.  In other words, their own dehumanisation is more important than your dehumanisation of them.  Admit that if you treat them like rats that you think you have no alternative.

 

A vague sense that evil cannot be tolerated and a just war against it is needed is one thing.  But if you see evil as cosmic, an attack on the infinite good of God, that is another.   It is going too far.  It is asking for people to go over the edge.

 

The Nazis notoriously classed the Jews as vermin and we are told that made it so much easier to torture and kill them.  The fact is that we already dehumanise.  We will not see the stranger as human in the way we see our loving mothers as human.  The Nazis were calling the Jews rats to degrade them not to talk themselves into eradicating them.  Those who try to lie that the motive was to fool themselves are making out that human nature is pure kindness and will only harm if it fools itself.  This is pure smug nonsense.  It says the harm doer is not a problem for the harm they do but for how they think.  If you are on the receiving end of such hate and violence you will not tolerate anybody saying such a thing.  It is easy for them to say and they do not care.  It is about looking good more than a anything. 

 

The Nazis would laugh at people telling them nice inspiring stories to change their behaviour.  Those dealing with the Nazis took up arms.  That says it all.  To call them good inside underneath the evil deeds shows what an unrealistic hypocrite you are.  If the problem is their mistaken thinking then attacking them is wrong.  Nobody however devout dared to suggest such a thing.

 

You would expect Christianity when it tells people that it is fair for them to violently defend themselves against an unjust aggressor to at the same time advocate good example and nice stories to try and get the the aggressors to stir the good within.  It does not for it knows fine well it will not work.  That is how much faith it really has in its God and his power to shatter illusions.

 

The fact remains that the "there are no really evil people at all and it is just their actions that are evil" brigade still say that these people are wielding evil.  In practice if you are seen as using evil the only way to deal with you is to treat you as if you were evil.  It makes no sense to ban calling a person evil and then allow this.  What is the point? 

 

As for the claim, "Without forgiveness evil is empowered to continue its vicious cycle", it threatens you if you say you fear somebody and cannot be good to them.  So much for forgiveness needing to be generous and uncompelled.  If there is a vicious cycle it will continue anyway if people are bullied into forgiving.

 

People think the cycle of harm and violence will always be there in one form or another.  They must not pretend to be breaking it.  They must admit that they are trying to get rid of big cycles and replace them with lesser.  Many like the cycle teaching for it programs people to lower their expectations.  Then harm comes as a result of a self-fulfilling prophecy.  Plus a really big cycle now is terrible but a less intensive one that is more prolonged can be worse.  So there is no such thing in reality as choosing a lesser vicious circle over a bigger.

So now our conclusion is reached.  We see that the rationale for forgiveness is based on lies.  No real forgiveness but a clever copy is happening.

 

Asking for forgiveness then is invalid.  And what you get in return is not valid either.

 

Asking God for forgiveness will not please him that is for sure!

 

A new hydra of hypocrisies appears when you say God is about forgiving and helps us forgive each other and indeed requires it.

 

Forgiveness and cancelling or balancing the harm, wrong, sin or offence - whatever you want to call it - away are often confused but they are not the same thing.  All would tell me that I can forgive John for trying to kill me even if the sin is there and he doesn't regret it but celebrates it.  If God forgives sin it does not follow that this un-sins us or changes us.  If I forgive you it does not follow that it will change you.  It only changes me.  Yet many believers hold that God does no changing but forgives a sin just like that.  From the moment a sin happens, it is forgiven.  It is obvious that this is not forgiving but condoning.  He does not really care.

 

Believers talk as if they want his forgiving more than his rehabilitating power.  That is significant.  They want to be affirmed in their sin and be sent rewards as if they had been good instead.

 

Claims such as, “Please forgive me for by God’s grace I have changed”, are manipulative. It is evidence that decides if you should be forgiven not grace or claiming to have grace. As God matters and man does not in comparison it follows that it is more important to uphold the person as an example of how well God fixes people than to remain suspicious of the person. You don’t want to risk being suspicious of a man who God has changed for that offends God.
 

Let us take another look.  So people say I have to confess sin or wrongdoing and repent for myself.  They say God has already forgiven me anyway.  They say that God is not compelled by our confession and repentance to forgive and we cannot earn forgiveness.  The error here is that nobody should be saying he is forced.  A God freely laying down conditions of repentance and confession is fine. 

 

The teaching that God forgives without being asked makes a mockery of, "Forgive us our trespasses" in the Lord's Prayer made by Jesus.  And what about our consent?  The petition clearly assumes we will never stop offending God. If this seems cheap, Christians may say it cost God a lot for he became man in order to provide atonement for sin.  The argument is that God can be so generous for sin is dealt with by the sacrifice of Jesus Christ.  It remains cheap.  The paradox is that if God just lets evil go that is cheap but if he goes as far as dying on a cross to let it go that is cheaper again.  A parent who lets a son beat them up in the name of forgiveness is being cheap.  A parent who lets a son slowly torture them to death even more so.  The bigger the price you pay to give cheap forgiveness the cheaper it is for the recipient.
 
Take elective late term abortion.  Christianity says even then that we must not regard their crime against God and humanity - its words - as unforgiveable.  So it says the important thing is not what happened to the baby but what God did in Jesus on the cross to atone and forgive and help them become good again.  This does not make sense.  If the baby doesn't matter why would God die on the cross for the sin of killing it?  If God comes first then his work on the cross matters and if there is a choice, the baby does not matter at all.

 

When you forgive, you treat the misdeeds as if they never took place so as to be able to accept the person who committed them.

 

If the evidence or situation says the person hurt you maliciously then you might still be wrong. Maybe they made a mistake.  You cannot put everybody on trial all the time.  So it follows you will forgive people for things you wrongly think they have done.

 

Yet nobody gives you the right to approach God like that.  A person who needs to forgive God is just dismissed and ignored.

 

Islam says you can ask Allah for forgiveness but it is up to him to grant it and nobody deserves it so it is his right to forgive a suicide bomber and to ignore you if you want your sin of fornication pardoned.  The logic is that it is not about the difference in sin but how Allah owes nobody anything.  Even if your repentance is deeper than the bomber that makes no difference.  If asking for forgiveness is bad or questionable then how much worse is it if you ask expecting forgiveness and believing God never refuses it if you ask sincerely?
 
Some say that asking for forgiveness should not be about the wrong you have done but about your need for forgiveness.

That implies that you should make no attempt to get forgiven unless you are really bothered by being in the doghouse or your conscience is searing or you need something from the victim.  That will backfire.  It is asking for the injured person to do you a favour.  The favour is what matters to you not the harm you did.  Also, you proved you can't be trusted when you hurt the victim so now you are asking for a favour from them?

 

The religions say you need God.  They clearly want you to use him.
 
Asking a person for forgiveness is accusing them of being bad people for not having forgiven already. It is accusing them of hypocritically hating your wrongdoing as if they are perfect themselves.  People need to be honest about that.

 

Conclusions: Forgiveness is based on incoherence.  Moving on is not the same thing but far better.  Simply stop letting somebody's injustice against you upset you right now.

No Copyright