DOES YOUR RELIGION BELONG TO YOU IF YOU DIVERGE FROM ITS CORE TEACHING? NO.
Ticking the Roman Catholic box on the census form when you no longer are Catholic by belief tells the state that you support the Church, which crucially means the State may formulate policies and laws that reflect the teachings of said Church. For example, a country could be reluctant to legalise gay marriage if it looks at the census results and sees that most have declared themselves Roman Catholic. The objective behind all the works of the Church is to bring people to believe in Catholic doctrine. To tick the Roman Catholic box is to is sanction public and official Church doctrine. That is why I, for one, will be ticking the 'No Religion' box on April 10".
Response: "My religion belongs to me, please don't ask me to sacrifice it
for political reasons."
In the first place, you have already done that yourself. LGBT rights
is very political. It is politics that gives those rights. The
Church only gives the right to be gay but not the right to practice
homosexuality.
I think many LGBT who are into homophobic religion realise it has a brainwashing effect. They think the best way to deal with the homophobia is not to condemn God or Jesus for the Bible for it but to pretend they are pro-gay. They think they can take advantage of a Christian's conditioned mind to make them accept gays. Such a tactic is an insult to gay rights.
Anyway my advice was addressed to those LGBT who are
lapsed and or unbelieving Catholics who may not have realised that they are no
longer true members of the Church. It was not addressed to you. I did not ask
anybody to give up their faith for political reasons. You complain that I did.
Sorry to have offended you, but as LGBT rights is so important I would be
almost proud if I had asked. LGBT people have a high suicide rate thanks to the
misery religious influence inflicts on them through society. Not being Catholic
kills nobody - being Catholic when you are gay can.
Thanks for admitting that you don't consider the political reasons regarding
LGBT welfare and rights - serious enough for separating from the Church. Or if
you know the faith is wrong you have separated from it anyway and you just need
to make it official.
You would order people to call themselves Catholic even if the legitimate
authorities of the Church said they were not. A Catholic University that teaches
that homosexuality is not a sin and a grave sin at that will be declared to be
Catholic no longer by the Church. Don't you see that you are treating the Church
like a political party you are a member of and whose policies you do not agree
with? You are therefore being political by claiming to be a member of the Church
and acting as such. You are helping a political body that opposes LGBT sexual
rights. You are an enabler. If you joined an organisation that did only good but
which required that one baby must be sacrificed every year you would be guilty
by association of murder.
Read this bit carefully. A religion is based on dogmas. A dogma is something
that is settled and not for debate. Whoever debates a religions dogmas is
denying this. He denies the very point of having religion.
I would not ask anybody to give up their faith. I would ask them to check it out
knowing that if they are open-minded it will evaporate so they won't need to
give it up.
You didn't mention if you felt you were being asked to sacrifice your religion
for social reasons? The social problems the Catholic faith creates for gay
people are worse than anything it throws at gay people through politics. You
committed the social aspect - significant. "Please don't ask me to sacrifice it
for political reasons." If you had read my article properly, you would
understand that it was not about political reasons so much as matters of
principle. My message was that a person should not support an organisation that
it against his or her rights when that person does not believe in the religion
and does not follow it. This would have political consequences down the line. It
was the principle not the politics I was really concerned about. There are forms
of Catholicism around that accept gay people without reserve. If you of your own
free will stay in a religion that officially and with the fullness of its
authority, condemns what you do - especially when it is something that can be
good like your homosexuality - you are implying that you side with that religion
in its evil. Leave it for the sake of the principle. Some LGBT "Catholics" would say you should
not join a violent religion even if you will not participate in the violence and
would say it is the principle. He needs to apply his standards for others to
himself.
The concept of God itself feeds homophobia. It implies that by having anal sex
for example gay men are refusing to obey God's design. The justification for
homosexuality is solely that some people are gay and deserve to be happy and
enjoy sex and relationships together. We don't care about design and indeed
shouldn't. To care is to waste concern on a being that might not even exist.
People come first. This is logical and rational. Any gay man who disagrees is
speaking from the heart not from the head and doesn't not deserve to be taken
seriously. Feeling that somebody is wrong does not amount to disagreeing with
them at all. Disagreeing is in the head and thinking. Another problem is how the
concept of God is so manipulative. People are made to take comfort in a being
who without justification considers what they do to be his business. In fact, it
is not God's concern what we do. If we say that good is good and evil is evil
because God says so then we are saying that God can make even something very
harmful good simply by saying it is good. If good is good and evil is evil
regardless of what God thinks then it is unimportant if we believe in God and
only discerning good and evil matter. LGBT who embrace such a symbol of
oppression as God are letting themselves down. To advance it is to open the door
to such things as scriptures and revelations that condemn casual sex and
same-sex relations.
The law of the land has the right to force any form of moral behaviour on the
people it wishes. Different countries having different laws reflects the
acknowledgment of that right. There will be Catholic countries in the
future that will forbid homosexuality
You are not being logical. You ignore the logical things I say. It is logic
says them not me. If there is a logical contradiction between Catholicism and
support for gay rights then deal with it and face it. There are a lot of logical
people around for a start and people will see through your pretence.
"My religion belongs to me, please don't ask me to sacrifice it for political
reasons." My article did not ask anybody to sacrifice anything. If you can't
identify as Catholic you shouldn't. And it is Catholic teaching that Catholics
approach God as a Church not as individuals. Your religion does not belong to
you - you have to belong to your religion. You need to at least consent to the
rules for that to happen. You disagree with a foundational teaching of the
Church that sex must only take place within marriage between a man and a woman
and are under excommunication for that reason. It is not your religion.
Christianity is very powerful as a political force. The hypocrisy of the members
who do not take it seriously but who give it money and who support it publicly
is its political impetus. Though it's meant to be a religion, it is more politics
than religion. A Catholic is made by a sprinkle of water. That is the religious
equivalent of nationality. Eg if you are born in Italy you are Italian. Human
personhood begins some time after conception so if your Italian parents were in
Spain when the foetus became you then you are Spanish. Nationality like water
baptism is just a label based on political divides. The Christian leaders engage
in the same lies and manipulations as politicians do. The leaders treat other
religions like other political parties. The supporter of same sex marriage or
LGBT Rights is only betraying his or her cause by being listed as say a
Catholic.
While you refuse to sacrifice your religion for political reasons, you stay in
it for political reasons - the state has to take account of religion and give it
a voice and offer political powers to religious people who get voted in - and
abet its dabblings in state matters. What religion you are in is a political
matter both directly and indirectly. If it were not for members like yourself,
the Church would not be in a position to meddle in politics and get such a good
podium to speak against human rights. Clearly getting politics to respect and
advance gay rights is less important to you than the Church. If enough obedient
Catholics are in the country, Catholic teaching will be reflected and sanctioned
in law. It is the principle - staying in Catholicism is a vote for Catholicism.
A religion is a form of politics - it governs, it lays down laws, it hopes to
see members of other religions abandon their religions and join it, it claims
the right to influence the law and voting.
As long as you declare the pope the head of the Church and the representative of
Jesus Christ on earth and your leader and you are responsible for what he
teaches in the sense that you confer responsibility on him. If there were no
members in the Church the pope would have no voice. The media would ignore him
completely and he wouldn't be able to do so much harm with his nasty mouth.
"My religion belongs to me".
It only belongs to you if you first and foremost belong to it. It's not up
to any religion to belong to you but to you to belong to it.
Do you really belong to the Spiritualists if you deny that anybody can
communicate with the dead? If you say you do, it is the religious label and the
trappings you want not the religion. It is that what belongs to you. Same with
Catholicism. Don't be a hypocrite. You just want to use the Church for your own
ends - community and the occasional feel-good factor.
You think you have the right to obscure and dissent from the Catholic faith and
misrepresent it. You do not. People exposed to Catholicism have the right to
know the real teaching of the Church a teaching you oppose. You oppose their
right.
The word religion means to bind. You consider yourself exempt from the
homosexuality ban. You do not belong.
Many confuse their beliefs with their religion. Your beliefs could be seen as
your own business. But if you are part of a religion, then it is incorrect to
speak of your beliefs. You are part of a group united in faith that means the
beliefs you have are not yours but the group's. What you must speak of is the
religion's beliefs.
And your beliefs are not about you but about the world. There is no excuse for
somebody being in a religion when they reject that religions beliefs.
LGBT who do not consider themselves to be sinners in being active LGBT should
make their separation from the Church official for they have already separated
from the Church in their hearts.
Clearly you are going to side with the Church even if it harms the cause of LGBT
civil rights. Thanks for the candour. It is Church law and commonsense that
determine if you are true Catholic Matt not you. And if you are a practicing
Catholic you were not asked to sacrifice Catholicism. I do expect you if you
class yourself as Catholic to stop pretending that you can speak for the Church
and advocate LGBT rights. Who made you Pope. You wrote that being gay and
Catholic "are not mutually exclusive". It is not up to you to decide what the
Catholic Church should teach or want to teach. If the law of the Land made
homosexuality a crime would you argue that being a good citizen and
homosexuality are not mutually exclusive?
Read the revelations of God in the Old Testament where he described a man who
lies with a man as an abomination who must be stoned to death to purge the evil
from the midst of the people. I recommend the book The Sins of Scripture by
Spong. I also recommend The Truth about Homosexuality - Ignatius Press, by
Father John F Harvey. Why? These books expose the lies of those who delude
themselves that gay sex and being obedient to the Bible are not mutually
exclusive. Remember that you believe that God at that time was the maker and
head of the Jewish religion. Jesus came along and said he brought the religion
to its fulfilment. So Christianity is really evolved Judaism. It is the same
religion. Thus it is correct to say that the Christian religion legally and
cruelly murdered gay people in Old Testament times.
The problem is bigger than the direct condemnations of homosexuality by the
Church. The gay basher gets forgiveness and a passport to heaven by going to
confession without even apologising to the victim or sending compensation. This
faith condones gay bashing. And the Church accepts half-hearted repentance that
is barely repentance at all which makes it worse. There is also the insistence
that sex indicates and pledges lifelong fidelity and commitment. A faith that
teaches that people go to Hell for missing Sunday Mass through their own fault
is not the kind of religion any LGBT person should belong to. It is vicious and
manipulative and untrustworthy. Parents who lose an LGBT child to suicide should
not have to endure the additional torment that their child might have gone to
Hell forever for their "sin". Every religion should be formulated in such a way
that no harm is done if the religion is untrue. Nothing should ever be condemned
purely because scripture says it is wrong.
The Catholic Church makes very big and serious claims. The bigger the claim the
more evidence is required. Unless you have evidence that the Catholic Church is
a supernatural entity set up by God to teach on his behalf you should not be
setting your face against LGBT rights by upholding Church membership.
The teaching that God alone has the power to punish the sin of homosexuality is
very vicious. The Church says we leave punishment to God where the law of the
land cannot or doesn't get involved. In other words, if they knew what God knew
and were in a position to judge a person with they would. There is an
undercurrent of evil in authentic Catholicism despite the outward veneer of
benevolence.
I terminated membership of Catholicism because I am a secularist and a LGBT
rights supporter. This would not be for political reasons so much as social. The
decline of the Church means the decline of its influence. The social influence
of the Church does LGBT people infinitely more harm than the influence of the
Church on politics. The Church claims to be a family thus it opposes the
individualism of today. To be part of a religion means you are repudiating
individualism and complete independence and are making it other people's
business what you do. The Catholic's duty is to help others live by the official
teaching of the Church. If you don't want the duty, then leave the Church.
Your beliefs are not about you. They are about the world. Your religion is not
about you. It is about the universe and the world and the supernatural. It is
not up to your religion to belong to you but you to belong to it. If you can't,
use the door.
You talk as if you need the religion like a crutch. For your information, the
New Testament makes it clear that being a real Christian will make life harder
and Jesus called us to lift up the cross. Christianity is not about feel-good
love but about sacrificial bleeding love. Using religion and faith as a crutch
makes people as hypocritical and irrational as yourself.
Last word, you belong to your country in a
loose sense. You belong to your family in a loose sense. You belong
to your religion in a loose sense. Nobody can really own you. But
there is a sense in which they can. Your religion does not belong to
you. You cannot own any person and you cannot own any persons making
up an organisation. Catholicism claims to belong to Jesus. It is not
up to anybody to diverge hugely from Catholicism and then claim to
own it. If I could own communism, I cannot if I believe in private
property being held.