ARE THOSE WHO PRAY TO SAINTS TRYING TO FORCE GOD’S HAND OR GET AROUND GOD?

Idolatry is any worship that implies a bad view of God. Using gods and saints to pray to instead shows you don’t trust him.

Catholics say praying to a saint simply means asking them to pray for you to God.

The Church itself says it is idolatry to pray to a saint purely because they are thought to have magical powers or miracle influence with God. It is supposed to be primarily about having a relationship with the saint so that you develop something of that saint's virtue and holiness in yourself. But then the Church turns around and tells you that God will not answer certain prayers unless a saint intercedes or influences him to do it. It is an awkward attempt to conceal Catholic polytheism.

The Church then might respond that God has direct power and the saints do not. He uses his power through them but they have no power at all of their own. Then they tell you that this is the reason the saints are not gods (small g) or Gods (big G). But the Catholics say it is really God's love and not his power that matters. It is his love that makes him God to us - and therefore deserving of worship - rather than his power. The saints do have love of their own. Therefore the saints are gods.

THE SAINTS ARE NOT HOLY

Saints for Catholics are those who go straight to Heaven at death.

No saint could possibly go straight to Heaven. A true saint would agree, if asked by God, to suffer incredible torment for all eternity so that God could use it to save souls from Hell. The saint's torment however would not be Hell for the saint would not be divorced from God. But it would be as painful. The only way to be sure a saint would do this is for him to actually do it. The saints wouldn't do it meaning that though they might be charming enough their attitude is full of self. They would commit the ultimate betrayal of letting people suffer forever so that they could enjoy heavenly bliss forever. Thus the Catholic saints are not saints at all. Thus the traditional Catholic doctrine that perfect contrition, meaning you turn away from sin because you would sacrifice anything for the love of God, is difficult is nearly vindicated. What is vindicated rather is that it is impossible, instead of difficult. Thus plenary indulgences are also impossible. They are based on the notion that you can detach yourself from sin completely in order to gain remission of all the punishment due to your sin.

Lets repeat: the person who will not suffer forever for others is committing the greatest sin possible. The only thing worse is how many others he or she lets down. It is graver to refuse to help save a billion billion people than two.

The Catholics cannot say they expect nobody to suffer to the uttermost forever. They expect the damned to do it over a stupid refusal to repent over sin. So it would be more reasonable to expect saints to do it.

The saints are really demons. It is honouring those who hide their vices in the robes of false virtue.

Those who revere hypocrites will become like what they revere.

To consult with the saints in prayer is the sin of necromancy, the ultimate black magic.

MARY

Mary is the Catholic saint who is singled out for special attention in the Catholic pantheon. If we pray to saints, then not pray to a saint asking her or him to pray to Mary for us? If we can ask Mary to pray for us to God then why can’t we ask some saint to pray to her? The absurdity of this shows plainly that invoking saints is really pagan worship in disguise. The saints are treated as gods or goddesses. The Church perceives this which is why it doesn't have prayers along the lines of, "Dear St Anthony, go to my mother Mary in Heaven and ask her for a new bicycle for me."

In paganism, you ask gods and goddesses to pray to the higher gods, the real bosses, for you. The lesser deities were considered gods and goddesses despite their lack of freedom to do what they wanted. This refutes the Catholic claim, "The saints are not gods for they have no power of their own."

The Roman Catholic Church says the charism of infallibility was used by Pope Pius IX when he proclaimed that the Virgin Mary was conceived without sin and lived a sinless life.

The Bible says that all human beings have sinned. St Paul taught that in the Bible. The Catholic Church says it excludes obvious exceptions like Jesus, babies and the Virgin Mary. But there is no evidence that anybody believed in those days that Mary was sinless. And Paul did include babies for he said that the power to die is a sign that there is sin. Jesus was the only obvious exception to this rule. Mary was not very important in the primitive Church. Therefore she was not an obvious exception.

Mary was never sinless. Matthew says that the wise men went to King Herod and told him that the Messiah was born in Bethlehem. Herod told them to return to him and tell him where the Messiah was if they found him. They visited Mary and Joseph and saw the child. They did not return to Herod for they had come to believe that he wanted to kill the child. Herod realised that the men were not coming back and he sent his men to Bethlehem to kill all the baby boys of two and under. Mary and Joseph took Jesus away from the danger and didn't even warn others that Herod was on his way to kill. They knew there was a risk of him killing all the babies.

Also the gospels say that the women who served Jesus stood at a distance when he was dying on the cross. Mark says that. And that the Jews mocked Jesus. The land was dark indicating that all were in darkness. Jesus felt so abandoned that he said he even felt God had abandoned him. He cried out Eloi Eloi lama sabathanai. My God, My God, why have you deserted me. The Jews said that he was calling Elijah. He must have cried it out several times. The Jews were so shocked at a man saying he was God's Son accusing God of forsaking him so they thought they must have misheard and it was Elijah he was calling. All that indicates extreme abandonment. Jesus' mother abandoned him too and she was therefore a sinner. John says she came to the cross but does not say that she cared.

The Church sometimes says it prays through Mary to God not to Mary. This is a lie . “Hail Holy Queen! Mother of Mercy! Hail our Life, our sweetness and our hope!” If the Church was really praying through Mary it would say, “O God hear my prayer in Mary’s name.” Not, “Mary do this and do that!”

The saints do not need to be asked to pray for us. They would be doing that anyway in a general way for it is making gods of them to say that they know all about us and are in a position to make very specific prayers. Asking people to pray for us does not mean we should ask the saints to do so.