ARE BELIEVERS IN GOD UNWITTING PANTHEISTS?

Let us talk about omnigod.  Omnigod means God but we are clarifying that by that we mean the being which is totally and infinitely perfect. He is infinitely good, wise and powerful.  He is infinite in all his perfections.

Now infinite means there is no power or no goodness that is not God's.  God supposedly has made all things.  Does it follow then that all things are made of God himself?
 
Reply to "Infinite God means Pantheistic God"
 
William Lane Craig, "God’s infinity isn’t really a quantitative concept but has reference to His superlative attributes."
 
"The assumption is that anything that is bounded is finite. That is demonstrably false. The natural number series 0, 1, 2, 3, . . . is bounded by 0 but is not therefore finite. To give a physical example, a wall of bricks with an infinite number of bricks in it may stretch to infinity to one’s right but may have a front edge and be, say, only three bricks in height."

Read more: http://www.reasonablefaith.org/does-infinite-personhood-imply-pantheism#ixzz3Yhz2JcYO
 
"Christian theology has traditionally affirmed that God is infinite. But some contemporary theologians seem to think that this affirmation stands in tension with the Christian belief in the reality of a finite world distinct from God. These theologians exhibit an unsettling tendency toward monism and, hence, toward pantheism."

Read more: http://www.reasonablefaith.org/pantheists-in-spite-of-themselves#ixzz3YhzKWrMB
 
"I show that there is no reason to think that God's metaphysical infinity entails being absolutely unlimited in the radical sense presupposed by these theologians. Indeed, such a notion is shown to be self-referentially incoherent. Rather God's metaphysical infinity should be understood in terms of His superlative attributes which make Him a maximally great being."

Read more: http://www.reasonablefaith.org/pantheists-in-spite-of-themselves#ixzz3Yhza5zu6
 
There really is no separate divine attribute denoted by “infinity.” Rather “infinity” serves as an umbrella-term for capturing all those properties which serve to make God the greatest conceivable being. In saying that God is infinite, we mean that God is necessary, self-existent, omnipotent, omniscient, holy, eternal, omnipresent, and so forth. Were we to abstract these properties from the concept of God, there would not remain some further, undefined property infinity. Rather God’s infinity is constituted precisely by these great-making properties.

Read more: http://www.reasonablefaith.org/pantheists-in-spite-of-themselves#ixzz3Yi13oxmV
 
Craig is right about one thing. Something can be infinite but still be bounded. But also, it is possible for something infinite and unbounded to exist.
 
In other words, if a river of custard three foot wide and one foot deep has no beginning and no end it is infinite yes but it does not follow that it is the only thing that exists. You could imagine such a river going through the universe without it not affecting it at all.
 
The custard is infinite but bounded in the sense that other things that are distinct from it can exist.
 
If the custard is infinite but unbounded that means that nothing can exist but the custard.
 
But this thinking does not apply to God for God is the source of all existence and is not a thing in the sense that the custard is.
 
Or more specifically, God's power to cause things to exist is unbounded even if he never uses the power.
 
Suppose creation is possible. Craig wants us to believe that God can create unboundedly infinite custard and not be unbounded infinite power himself. This makes no sense and contradicts the notion that an infinite God is needed to create without using anything - that he is needed to explain creation ex nihilo. Only unbounded power can produce unbounded custard so God must have unbounded power.
 
He tries to say that God's power is not about how much power he has but about it being superlative. Superlative means it is not like any power in the universe. Even the infinite power of unbounded custard would not compare. That information is not relevant. The issue is the fact that he can make unbounded custard so he has unbounded power to call on if he wants to make it.
 
Conclusion: God is infinitely unbounded if he can create so he has infinite power and thus he is his creation. The puppy running up the lane is God.
 
Potential and Actual Infinite
 
God is not a potential infinite. A being with potentially infinite power never has all power for one more unit of power can be added to the existing series. A God who has power added to him or can have it added to him is not really God. The power must come from something other than him. If it came from him, it would not be able to be added to him.
 
God is an actual infinite. An actual infinite "is not growing towards infinity because it is infinite already. A part within an actual infinite set is equal to the whole set because it is infinite" (page 41, Philosophy of Religion for A Level, OCR Edition (Anne Jordan, Neil Lockyer and Edwin Tate, Nelson Thornes Ltd, 1999).
 
"An actual infinite is 'complete' at all times and many philosophers regard this as illogical" (page 41, Philosophy of Religion for A Level, OCR Edition (Anne Jordan, Neil Lockyer and Edwin Tate, Nelson Thornes Ltd, 1999). If these philosophers are right, then the notion of an infinite God is a complete God and is nonsense.
 
Imagine there is a bakery with that has actually infinitely cakes. The cakes are birthday cakes and wedding cakes. It would mean that the number of birthday cakes will be infinite and the number of wedding cakes will be infinite too. Even if you take a birthday cake, the birthday cakes and the wedding cakes are still the same number - an infinite number.
 
If there is a God then I am God and I can still live as an atheist!

Pantheism is the idea that God has turned himself into the universe and all that is in it. It often goes along with the idea that all things are made of the non-material God and that matter is an illusion. It says we are the one mind God and only imagine we are separate beings.

If God made all things from nothing then God is infinite power. Infinite means all power is his and there is no power outside of his.
 
This God then cannot make anything out of nothing. That would be making powers that are not his powers. If God is infinite that means there is no power but his power. God then has turned into us. If God exists then we are God. We must then be our own authority and not be looking for a bigger God to rule over us!
 
While we cannot prove pantheism, the value of the doctrine is that it shows that if God exists then we are God and immortal. It proves the possibility. Take comfort in that but go no further with it.

Try and forget about the past and the future and just be focused on the now. This is what is important - not God.

If pantheism is true then you are divine. Some say your thoughts become things, realities. When you see the suffering of the world, they want you to affirm that if it were not for the negativity that you have to turn into positive you would magic a cure for cancer, AIDS and everything else out of thin air. If you were able to be a better God, you would do better than any God worshipped in a Church. To worship such a God is to affirm that evil and suffering should be allowed to happen if he decides they should. It is very harmful. It is very damaging.
 
Pity they can't see that the negatives we supposedly use to make good out of are unimportant compared to stopping AIDS. They want us to think we do nothing about AIDS for we have no power left but that is nonsense.

Before the 19th Century...

Philosopher David Hume made errors regarding the subject of infinity.  “The theory of mathematical continuity was not properly developed until the nineteenth century, and Hume’s troubles partly arose from his inability to see how an infinite number of parts could constitute anything less than an infinite whole.” Hume: A Very Short Introduction by Ayer.

If so, then even if infinite does not mean all, nobody knew that until the 1800's.  Everybody was pantheist then. 

Does it matter?  Is pantheism selfish?

Pantheists cannot tell you to love your neighbour but to be your neighbour or see that you are your neighbour so that it is really yourself you think you are loving. So being good to others ends up being mere selfishness. Your intentions are to serve what you think is another you.  This is more than selfishness - it is narcissism and that is vile.

Oddly enough Christians would rather you were a pantheist than an atheist for at least you have a version of God and can be lifted up to a more dignified view of God!  This is a good point if believing in God matters.  It is nonsense though which shows we have to be wary of faith in God.

CONCLUSION
 
The doctrine of creation despite being the main logical attraction to belief for those who think insufficiently is actually the greatest proof that practical atheism if not belief that there is no God should be the rule. It proves that if there is a God it is a pantheistic God - in other words, not the kind of God that has the right to ask any obedience of us for we and he are one and the same being.  Even if hypothetically there could be a difference between God and the creation the fact remains our minds see an infinite being as including what he makes.  There is no infinite being who makes a universe that is not him and not made of him.