VATICAN II DID NOT PREACH DOGMATICALLY SO IT IS NOT INFALLIBLE SO DID IT ERR?

Catholicism holds that ecumenical councils are protected from error by God.  Vatican II did not invoke this protection and was pastoral.

The following is what a traditional Catholic would say about modern Catholic doctrine.  It shows the Catholic claim to be straightforward and in line with commonsense and simplicity is false.  So much for the Church reflecting Jesus' rule that there must be no confusion only yes or no as in clarity.

DO CHRISTIANS AND MUSLIMS SHARE THE SAME GOD?
 
Vatican II said that Muslims and Christians have the same God. The view that the Muslims are right in many things about God means nothing. Being right is no good if you are only guessing, which is what they are doing. They don’t have the real word of God. We only know God through divine grace which guides our reason and helps us to see that the Church speaks the truth. The man who guesses things about the king cannot love the king for it is only his perception of him that he loves. Even if his guesses are all correct it makes no difference. It may look like he serves the king but he doesn’t. It is divine law that we must not consider people who are outside the Roman Catholic Church to be really in touch with God no matter how pious they seem to be. The Muslim God is not the same as the Catholic God subjectively. In other words, the Muslims have a different God by their perception. The Muslim God is not the same as the Catholic God objectively. In other words, just because somebody believes in and adores a being creating all things out of nothing and who is good it doesn’t mean they worship our God. All secretaries have a lot in common and it doesn’t mean that everybody has just the one secretary.  
 
The God of our Lord Jesus Christ is a loving Father. The God of Islam has good qualities but is not a parent. The God of our Lord is a relationship, the Father loving the Son and the Holy Spirit and they loving him in return. The God of Islam is one person. Both religions believe that God is the supreme spirit who made all things. It seems then that objectively they have the same God but differ in their beliefs about what God is like. Could this be said of the God of the Jews? No, the Jews were never given any just reason to believe that God was just one person or wasn’t a loving father. The Muslims have the Koran and their tradition which are in denial of the God of Jesus Christ. Jews and Christians have the same God but this God is not the same God as the God of the Muslims.
 
A horse and a cow are not the same thing just because both eat grass, have young, and have four legs and live in fields. The Muslim God is not the God of Jesus Christ for the main things are missing, the idea that God is love and God is a relationship and God is Father. That is more important than God being creator because we should believe that it is because God is relationship he created so that others might have relationships to like him and have relationships with him. The Muslim God is a different God and a horse and a cow have more chance of being the same thing than he has of being the same God as the God of Jesus Christ.
 
To say that the Muslim God and the Christian one is the same is to pay homage to the Muslim God who is an idol.

ECUMENISM
 
Most traditional Catholics hold that Vatican II didn’t teach heresy.
 
The decree on ecumenism is glaring proof that it did albeit by a clever use of words rather than any outward submission to heresy. The Holy Spirit protected the Church. There is no need for ecumenism, religions coming together in prayer and seeking religious unity. People of different religions can have friendships together. However it is a sin for an untrained Catholic to discuss religion with a heretic. Ecumenism that is just about softening barriers between religions to get the other religions converted to your religion is not ecumenism but manipulation. Ecumenism is really different religions treating each other as sufficient ways to salvation. In Vatican II theology, the Catholic Church is the only way to God but unbelievers who are sincere are Catholics without knowing it. This is really saying that though there might be one best religion it doesn’t matter what you believe. This is indifferentism. If you can be saved by a very simple faith and a faith that is much simpler than Catholicism then that faith is BETTER than Catholicism for with less rules it makes salvation easier. Vatican II only pretends that Catholicism matters, its only doing that to look Catholic. Liberals contradict themselves all the time for they don’t really believe in truth.
 
Pope Pius XI wrote in his great encyclical Mortalium Animos published January 6th 1928 of ecumenists that, “They hold it for certain that men destitute of all religious sense are very rarely to be found, they seem to have founded on that belief a hope that the nations, although they differ among themselves in certain religious matters, will without much difficulty come to agree as brethren in professing certain doctrines, which form as it were a common basis of the spiritual life. For which reason conventions, meetings and addresses are frequently arranged by these persons, at which a large number of listeners are present, and at which all without distinction are invited to join in the discussion, both infidels of every kind, and Christians, even those who have unhappily fallen away from Christ or who with obstinacy and pertinacity deny His divine nature and mission. Certainly such attempts can nowise be approved by Catholics. Founded on that false opinion which considers all religions to be more or less good and praiseworthy, since they all in different way manifest and signify that sense which is inborn in us all, and by which we are led to God and to the obedient acknowledgment of His rule. Not only are those who hold this opinion in error and deceived, but also in distorting the idea of true religion they reject it, and little by little, turn aside to naturalism and atheism; from which it clearly follows that one who supports those who hold these theories and attempt to realize them, is altogether abandoning the divinely revealed religion” (Chapter 2).
 
In chapter 4 he wrote, “Is it not right, it is often repeated, indeed, even consonant with duty, that all who invoke the name of Christ should abstain from mutual charity? Who would dare to say that he loved Christ, unless he worked with all his might to carry out the desires of Him, Who asked His Father that His disciples might be “one”. .. But in reality beneath these enticing words and blandishments lies a hid a most grave error, by which the foundations of the Catholic faith are completely destroyed”. All this totally contradicts the sweet words of Vatican II.
 
The Church teaches that the constant and unchanging teaching of the ordinary magisterium (that what the Church has always taught from the beginning) is infallible and in chapter 10 Pius XI writes: “So, Venerable Brethren, it is clear why the Apostolic See has never allowed its subjects to take part in the assemblies of non-Catholics: for the union of Christians can only be promoted by promoting return to the one true Church of Christ of those who are separated from it, for in the past they have unhappily left it.” He then quotes with approval, St Cyprian, who said it was silly to believe that the Church could be one while accepting breakaways having an ecumenical relationship with it as members. The ordinary magisterium is simply what was always believed – novelty doctrines are excluded from this magisterium and cannot be binding. The extraordinary magisterium is used or should be used when such tradition is questioned to make it clear that the doctrine or tradition is infallible revelation from God. This is not because the Church is uncertain but because the questioners are. It is certain then that ecumenism denies the infallibility of the ordinary magisterium, the infallibility of divine tradition and wrecks the faith. Pius XI knew this and said it. Without the ordinary magisterium being infallible the extraordinary magisterium cannot be infallible either for it depends on it. For example, before Pius IX proclaimed the Immaculate Conception of the Blessed Virgin as infallible he checked what the Church always believed and on that basis he had the evidence he needed to go ahead and proclaim that it was revealed by God and that papal infallibility guaranteed this.
 
Christ our Lord and the holy apostles told the truth exactly as they saw it regardless of the consequences and told it bluntly and commanded that the Church put truth first and be willing even to die for the glory of Christ. The Vatican II Church in contrast doesn’t do that in the name of sparing peoples’ feelings. This is because of ecumenism and it’s another heresy.