SCIENCE AND MEDJUGORJE
- DOES IT SHOW ANYTHING INEXPLICABLE IS GOING ON?
NO.
Please read
Problems with the Joyeux findings
Refutation of scientific "evidence" for Medjugorje
The book we will be sifting through is called Scientific and Medical Studies
on the Apparitions at Medjugorje. It was written by Fr Rene Laurentin and
Professor Henri Joyeux of the University of Montepellier. It was published
by Veritas, Dublin in 1987. The book says that the apparitions to the
visionaries of Medjugorje since 1981 are real and definitely beyond anything
natural and so possibly miraculous. It is the best book then for searching
for evidence against the apparitions being miraculous. The book goes as far
as to make out Medjugorje is supernaturally full of radiation! If that were
true the place would be swamped with physicists. And this huge big thing is
only mentioned in passing!
The six visionaries go into ecstasy. The ecstasy is the joyous trance that
shows the vision is happening. The book says that “since the end of 1983,
ecstasy begins before they have finished the first Our Father” (page 7). Yet
the book says that when the youths look up when the youths look up when the
Virgin manifests there is no evidence of signalling to account for them all
doing it at the one time! They say the prayer together and they could have
agreed to throw their heads back at a certain word and to change that word
every day to make it look genuine. In Channel 4’s program from 1998, The
Miracle Police two visionaries have a slight difference as to when they
raise their heads and eyes as the Virgin allegedly departs upwards. Hold
your finger on pause to put it in very slow motion if you have a tape of it
and look carefully.
Page 10 says that the apparition lasts no more than one or two minutes since
the end of 1983 though previously she would have stayed for three quarters
of an hour. This suggests that when medical and scientific tests began the
visions may have been shortened by the visionaries to make life and
non-detection of their deception easier.
On page 11 we read how Vicka managed to shorten the first medical
examination they had in 1981. This examination was required by the police.
Vicka kept nagging Dr Bijevic about when it was going to be over and it was
not even her turn and she refused to sit down and she said cheekily that she
would stand for she was healthy and she would come back for an examination
if she needed one and the doctor let her go. Anyone who really saw the
Virgin would want it to be verified and when she was afraid of being
examined it suggests she thought she had something to hide. Could it have
been something like evidence of psychosis?
Page 16 says that when the Virgin saw one of the visionaries in a harness
for testing his physical reactions to the apparition she said that was not
necessary when asked for her opinion. The doctor, Botta, found this
offensive thinking that the Lady was accusing him of doing wrong in testing.
Dr Botta was then told that the Virgin only meant that prayer was needed and
that the tests were just accessories and was not accusing him. But this
answer just tells him he was accused! If the Virgin was the real Mary or the
Devil they would welcome tests. Prayer is not the essential. Prayer will not
tell you what is true or false with regard to an apparition’s authenticity.
And if prayer worked human nature would manage to get in the way. We have to
investigate not just pray.
Fr Bulat stuck a needle in Vicka when she was having a vision. “Under the
sheer pressure of the action Vicka’s body moved somewhat to the right but
she quickly and gracefully regained her balance. Not a muscle in her face
moved” (page 18). You can avoid seeming to have felt pain when you are
expecting the needle and think of the bad consequences if you show any
evidence of being hurt which will help you bear it. The children would have
known that visionaries were tested during ecstasy with needles and have been
prepared for it. The thought of what they would lose if they reacted was
enough to make them blank out the pain. A reaction can be hidden or
disguised. Actors do that all the time. But we must be clear that there was
a possible reaction though not a facial one. The Franciscan fraudsters would
have the children well prepared about what tests visionaries can expect.
Referring to another test, “When we questioned Fr Bulat he said that he had
noticed some muscular movement in the neck, at least during the course of
the second prod. But he was placed behind Vicka and too much on the vertical
to be able to notice. It would appear that any movement was simply Vicka’s
effort to regain her balance after the pressure of the needle" (page 18).
At least the quote admits to being unsure if it was a reaction or not.
A neck movement can be seen from behind if he is near her which he was. He
had to have been able to see when he said he saw it. Why prod if the face
cannot be at least partly seen?
So Fr Bulat was accused of lying when he said he saw the neck and it is not
true that the movement appeared to be just an attempt to steady for it could
just have easily have been a reaction to pain. Why would the muscles of the
neck need to move if the body moved to the right meaning that the muscles
round the waist were responsible? The waist would have been used to balance.
And where is the proof that autosuggestion was not employed to help her take
the pain?
Did Vicka know she was going to be needled? It does not matter. If she did
know it would happen but not when she had to be ready. And it is hard to
believe she was not forewarned as Bulat could have been in breach of the law
of the land if he just put a needle in without any warning.
This episode makes us wary of this book for it shows that the authors were
willing to ignore the case against the apparition to focus on the reasons
for it being real. And that is not an honest approach.
Henri Joyeux was going to test the children with EEGs to determine if what
was happening in their minds was normal when they were having their vision.
Jacov, Ivanka and Marija refused for the Virgin had said there was no need.
It looks like they were stalling.
They were urged to ask the Virgin who said, “You did well to ask. You can go
ahead” (page 19). But it was not right for them to ask her permission.
Visions have to be tested before they can be trusted. Mary would take that
for granted anyway and would not be concerned about permission for it was
not her who was being tested but the visionaries. She would have told them
to look for tests from the start if she had really been from Heaven or Hell.
The tests showed that the vision was not a hallucination. But we now know
determining a hallucination is more complex than was thought at the time of
the tests. Paranormal experts believe that paranormal forces can cause
hallucinations but medical experts prefer to keep it strictly scientific.
Mary not wanting the visions tested in a world filled with fake religions
and fake claims does far more to show this apparition is not from God than
any test.
On page 22, we read that Joyeux and Laurentin would not have discussed
testing with the children anymore if they had been against it seemingly
since the Virgin had told the children to make up their own minds about
being tested. This is disgusting and shows that the authors were amenable to
blind faith and did not come to their work with a good and neutral
scientific attitude.
Page 23 tells us that there is no reaction to seeing bright light like
blinking or turning away from it when the vision is happening. Only the
pupils reacted. But you can train your facial muscles to hide any reaction
to such light. It is easy enough to train for that by looking close at
lightbulbs. And if the children really see the Virgin in a glowing aura
their pupils should stay the same for it is the same strength of light they
are looking at. Remember they see her they say as a normal person in every
other respect.
On page 25, we learn that the visionaries claimed that they could touch the
apparition. Jacov alone was to touch her while he was being tested to see if
he was really touching anything. He did not and then said that he had
forgotten to ask her permission and that she had left as he was about to ask
her. But the real Virgin would not have done that for she would have known
he had something to say to her. And how could something like that be
forgotten until the end of the vision? You don’t go to an interview and
forget to go into the office and talk about yourself.
Ivanka and Marija asked the Virgin if they could have the test done and she
said no (page 25). Obviously, when the Virgin was so unreasonable there was
no Virgin at all. The real Virgin Mary does not make mistakes. The
visionaries were making up an excuse.
Page 25, “At the beginning of the ecstasy eye movements ceased almost
simultaneously”.
So the eyeballs were not moving? No need for a miracle for that. The
visionaries knew that the eyes should look at the one spot during ecstasy
when the cause supposedly manifests. The word almost is of the utmost
importance. The book is for defending the view that the ecstasy is
supernatural. If it were they would all fall into it in the exact same
fraction of a second. Almost is too open to interpretation. Why are we not
told exactly what time it took?
Before the ecstasy of the 29th of December 1984, Ivan jumped at a noise of
70 decibels. During the ecstasy, he did not react to a noise of 90 decibels.
This was as loud as the noise of a combustion engine. He did not react for
he was prepared for the noise and when he jumped the first time he did so
because he knew that the test was to see if the noise would startle him
during the apparition. He said he heard nothing (page 26). Yet the book says
that during the apparition the visionaries can still be partially stimulated
by the world – they are not completely cut off from their surroundings.
If Ivan was in a relaxed state he may have been hard to startle. People who can be jumpy may be hard to startle when they are doing meditation or something very relaxing. If you are made to jump at a sudden noise chances are you will not jump again any time soon. You kind of expect it when the memory is fresh so you won't get startled.
The most important thing now is that Ivan lied about the noise. The test was
scientifically invalid for it cannot show that he really did not hear
anything.
It was concluded, “With regard to the hearing function, our tests showed
that the auditory nerve continued to transmit sounds but that these sounds
did not reach the cortex” (page 27). But it is only Ivan’s word we have that
he did not hear the sound. Why would the nerve carry sound if not to the
cortex? What is the point of noise registering in the nerve and not the
cortex?
The tests revealed that when Ivanka’s voice became quiet during the
apparition “there was no longer any movement of the larynx” (page 26). So
when she spoke to the Lady only her lips moved. There is no miracle in this
though many say there is! That is because they are believing her when she
says she speaks aloud to the Lady.
Speaking inaudibly is motivated by a desire to prevent mistakes. If they
spoke aloud then Ivanka could have said, “Yes, we want you here tomorrow,”
and Jacov, “I know you have helped him”, both at the same time proving that
they were not really answering anybody at all. An inaudible voice would not
testify against the authenticity of the apparitions if there was only one
witness but only if there were more and with Medjugorje the apparitions are
short and the messages banal so the Lady has nothing to hide. It makes no
sense that a supernatural being would not make it look more like she or he
is appearing which involves letting them talk out loud.
You can gently move air through your voice-box that makes it show up on the
instruments as if you are talking loud but something supernatural is
preventing others from hearing you.
But the silence may be totally fictitious for Ivan was filmed having a
vision in England and his voice was audible when he spoke to the Virgin but
low in the video, Visions on Demand. The scientists promoting the
apparitions are lying when they say he is miraculously inaudible.
Page 27: “The visionaries do not feel pinching, prodding or other
interventions. This disconnection is not total; rather it is partial and
variable”. We even read: “It all happens as if the visionaries, urged on by
the ecstasy (their encounter with the Virgin) gradually adapted themselves
to it and eventually allowed themselves to be lost in it”. This ecstasy
cannot be much of a miracle in that case.
Page 27 ends with the extraordinary statement that the visionaries “warn the
people when they appear to annoy the Virgin or walk on her veil”. The Virgin
must act upset which shows that she is not a miraculous being. She could
miraculously enable the people to walk through her. If the visionaries did
not believe the Lady could look after herself it is strange when she was
able to keep herself invisible from the people. They are certainly lying
about the Lady and trying to make her seem too human because they don’t know
that Bernadette of Lourdes, for example, saw a Lady she could not disturb or
describe exactly. The vision is not as mysterious and magical. The
visionaries did know what was happening around them.
At that stage the visionaries should know that people cannot disturb the
apparition. It looks like a stupid piece of drama. Lies unravel.
I find it disturbing that Ivan and Vicka are able to look at "Mary" without
blinking while the rest do (31). Bernadette did not blink at Lourdes it is
said. The differences suggest that there is no miraculous synchronicity.
What use is partial?
The tests were set up to get the results that the researchers wanted and exaggerated beyond reason. Only fake visionaries need fakery to defend them.